Sonja Mitchell

AllBreweryHomebrewingAlcohol Free
Written By Rob Cadwell

Today we’re taking a leap from  what is – if we’re honest – the perfectly stable ground beneath our feet and taking the risk and opportunity of the high seas.

In some ways that’s the journey that today’s guest has taken.

I’m speaking with Sonja Mitchell, the Managing Director or Beer Admiral of Jump Ship Brewing, an alcohol-free beer brand that started when Sonja – an avid sailor - had had enough of low alcohol beers not coming close to the  Scottish beers she enjoyed. And so Sonja quite literally jumped ship from her day job to brew her own.

And after much work and many brews, their lager, Yardarm, achieved best no and low alcohol lager in the World Beer Awards.

Flash forward to today and Jump Ship’s a small crew of shipmates with a brewery under construction in Midlothian with its sights set on making the world a little better along the way.

Jump Ship Brewing:

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Transcript

Please note this is an automated transcript (so will certainly contain errors and mistranslations but should give you a good gist of the conversation):

Sonja: You. Sonja: I mean, for me, it's. Sonja: It's all about moving away from the stigma of abv and beer just being beer, whether it's 0.5 or 4.5, and people drinking beer for the flavor and the quality and not being hung up about how strong it is. Sonja: You. Rob (Host): Hello and welcome to we are beer people, a podcast all about the many different people who help us enjoy beer. Rob (Host): I'm your host, Rob Cadwell, and I reckon if you're listening to this, then there's a good chance that you are one of the beer people too. Rob (Host): You might be involved in the world of beer. Rob (Host): You may want to find out more about the industry, or perhaps you simply enjoy drinking the stuff. Rob (Host): So join me now as I have a chat with one of the beer. Rob (Host): People, taking a leap of faith from what is, if we're honest, the perfectly stable ground beneath our feet and taking the risk and opportunity of the high seas. Rob (Host): And in some ways, that's the journey that today's guest has taken. Rob (Host): I'm speaking with Sonia Mitchell, the managing director or beer admiral of Jump Ship Brewing, an alcohol free beer brand that started when Sonja, an avid sailor, had had enough of low alcohol beers, not coming close to the scottish beers she enjoyed. Rob (Host): And so Sonya quite literally jumped shipped from her day job to brew her own. Rob (Host): And after much work and many brews, their lager yard arm achieved best known and low alcohol lager in the world. Rob (Host): Beer awards flash forward to today and jump ships a small crew of shipmates with a brewery under construction in Midlothian, with its sights set on making the world a little better along the way. Rob (Host): And I caught up with Sonia. Rob (Host): Ahoy, Sonja, and a very big welcome to the podcast. Rob (Host): How are you doing? Sonja: I'm good, thank you. Sonja: Thanks for having me aboard. Rob (Host): Thank you for coming on. Rob (Host): So we're recording this through the magic of the Internet today. Rob (Host): Can you tell us a little bit about where you're recording from and help paint a picture for our listeners? Sonja: So I'm sitting in Edinburgh at the moment in what is the remnants of our temporary office, and we've actually moved out now to the new brewery site down in Midlothian, where the tanks arrived on Monday. Sonja: But I'm back in the office today because we've left behind a lot of kegs, a lot of brewing equipment, a lot of boxes that once I've finished talking to you, I'm going to have to kind of deal with that. Rob (Host): It's always a big part of brewing, probably after cleaning, is moving things around. Sonja: Yes. Rob (Host): And for those that don't know you. Rob (Host): Can you take us back to the beginning and tell us why beer and what brought you here? Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: Okay. Sonja: Well, I've always loved beer. Sonja: As soon as I could get myself into a pub, that's what I was drinking, and played a lot of rumby. Sonja: So big, big culture there. Sonja: And I just kind of hit a point in my late 30s when I still really wanted a nice beer on the Tuesday night. Sonja: But the alcohol wasn't working for me anymore. Sonja: Boys had bad hangovers, now had three kids, and just waking up in the morning feeling really touchy and irritable. Sonja: I just didn't have time for that anymore. Sonja: So we started. Sonja: Just did dry January in 2018. Sonja: Ordered a mixed load of beers. Sonja: Most of them were disappointing. Sonja: Alcohol free beers. Sonja: A couple were okay. Sonja: And I started drinking alcohol free beer and thinking, this is great. Sonja: I'm still having a beer. Sonja: It's Tuesday, don't have to worry about tomorrow. Sonja: But it wasn't as good as the beer that I was used to drinking. Sonja: I moved up to Scotland 14 years ago now, and I've very much made it my home. Sonja: There's a lot of great breweries up here, particularly at Edinburgh. Sonja: We're very lucky. Sonja: And I was like, why am I drinking a german lager when I used to be drinking, like, a really lovely crafted beer? Sonja: And it just felt really wrong that I was being forced to make a different choice just because I did the alcohol. Sonja: And it really annoyed me, and I don't know why. Sonja: Just the idea took hold of me, and I was like, well, if no one else is going to do it, then I'm going to have to do it. Sonja: So I don't have a background in the drinks industry, I don't have a background in brewing. Sonja: But I just thought, well, maybe I'll just see if I can make one that tastes nice. Sonja: So I did a Startup brewing course, which I loved. Sonja: I just totally thought, whole magic of brewing is amazing. Sonja: The mixture of biochemistry and engineering and the history behind it all. Sonja: But I also realized that I probably needed an undergraduate degree from Harriet watts as well. Sonja: And while I was there, I met a brewer who had. Sonja: He'd done a low alcohol recipe before, and I said, would he be willing to work with me on an under 0.5 recipe? Sonja: And he said, yeah. Sonja: So I got together a brief for the beer I wanted. Sonja: I was quite clear that I wanted it to be a lager because I felt lager had been so abused and sent alcohol free beer, and it just never quite gets enough love. Sonja: And I really enjoy kind of a full flavored craft lager. Sonja: So we took that as the starting point. Sonja: Brewed three different batches on 30 liter kit, and one was terrible, one was okay, and one was amazing, and had my brown sample bottles and shared them out with friends. Sonja: I took them to my local independent bottle shops and I got this really consistent feedback that this beer is great and when can we buy it? Sonja: So I was like, okay, right, I've done the first bit, which is to make a beer that I think is better than what's out there already. Sonja: And I really want to drink this beer, so I'm going to have to bake it commercially. Sonja: And that was a huge leap then. Sonja: And I think if I know what I know now, I probably wouldn't have got started. Sonja: But at that point, I didn't know what I didn't know. Sonja: So I just was very naive. Sonja: I was really determined to brew the beer in Scotland, because for me, beer comes from somewhere and it has a provenance to it. Sonja: So trying to find a brewery in Scotland willing to work with me, that wasn't too big, that wasn't too busy, that wasn't too small. Sonja: Took a think, you know, I was just this random woman clutching a technical recipe sheet with a dream. Sonja: But eventually I found somewhere willing to give it a go. Sonja: And I handed over the recipe and I kind of thought, they're the brewers, they'll know how to do it. Sonja: I'm not a brewer. Sonja: And I was there for the brew day. Sonja: It was all very exciting. Sonja: Went away, came back a month later to can the beer, tasted the beer, and it tasted nothing like this amazing beer that I had been dreaming about. Sonja: And so that was a really difficult day. Sonja: Very pressurized. Sonja: And I was already, I had my customers lined up. Sonja: I was supposed to launch in five days time. Sonja: And I just like, this beer isn't good enough. Sonja: So we had to start again. Sonja: And I think at that point, I realized that actually this was a lot, going to be a lot harder. Sonja: That scaling up a recipe is not as simple as just increasing the numbers. Sonja: That there's lots of variables in brewing in terms of the different kit, different water ingredients, different brewers, different techniques, and that yeast is organic and live. Sonja: It's going to do different things. Sonja: So we tried again and it didn't work. Sonja: And then by the time we came around to try in the third time round, by that point, they just got too busy. Sonja: It was like, I need to find somewhere else. Sonja: So that was literally the day I'd launched my crowdfunding. Sonja: I kind of launched the crowdfunding to pre sell my first brew. Sonja: And I'd had this incredible response to it and it got picked up in the media and I was kind of being interviewed on Radio Scotland, and I was like, I don't know where I'm going to make this beer, but I'd already started talking to another brewer and they had the time and they just said, you tell us what to do, we'll do it. Sonja: I went back to basics. Sonja: I brewed the beer again at small scale to make sure the recipe was right. Sonja: I then scaled the recipe myself to make sure that I was happy. Sonja: I got the water analysis. Sonja: I kind of realized that I needed to take control, that, okay, I wasn't a brewer, but I didn't know quite a lot about my particular beer and no one cared about it as much as I did. Sonja: So it was on me to get it right. Sonja: And I also knew at that point that it was probably going to go wrong the first time we brewed it there, just because, again, we were getting used to the kit. Sonja: And so the first time we brewed it over fermented, but it did taste brilliant. Sonja: And so I kind of thought, if we've got the flavor right, because that was the thing we hadn't been able to get right before, we can manage the fermentation better on the next run. Sonja: And that's what we did. Sonja: And I got the biff and we launched. Sonja: So that was a long and quite emotional year. Rob (Host): I bet that must be an amazing feeling. Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: From that glorious launch and the launch party in January, we were sort of straight into 2020 and Covid. Sonja: So that was, I think, like everyone, I sort of felt like the bottom had dropped out of my world. Sonja: The. Sonja: The brewery that I was working with furloughed for five months, they were at that point, very driven by cask and many breweries. Sonja: Their customer base dried up. Sonja: So I think we were the last brew. Sonja: So I had some beer in the pipeline, but 2020 was really about just managing with the beer that I had. Rob (Host): I can't imagine how that must have felt during the pandemic and that all coming along, obviously impacting where you were brewing. Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: I think if you'd sort of asked me at the end of March 2020, I think I thought maybe it was just all over, because the world felt so strange. Sonja: It was so kind of frightening to see how brewery orders had collapsed, how the pubs closed, and then also, personally, I've got three kids to home school. Sonja: Just like, how. Sonja: How is this even possible? Sonja: But then, yeah, just kind of bit by bit, you kind of realized that there were new ways of working. Sonja: And I think there was just a real upswelling of support in Edinburgh. Sonja: And I think it happened across the UK to support. Sonja: People were looking around, who are our local businesses? Sonja: Who are our local brewers? Sonja: How can we support them amongst the breweries in Edinburgh? Sonja: And there was kind of a good network of support. Sonja: And then I literally just put a PayPal button on my website and people started ordering beer. Sonja: And I was like, I don't know who these people are. Sonja: And I've only been in business for a couple of months, so I'd load up my car on a Thursday afternoon, put the kids in the back listening to an audiobook, go and deliver beer, and have to head and preface. Sonja: And some of those people are still ordering with us now. Sonja: I grew much slower in my first year because I just never knew when I was going to have beer. Sonja: And even when things opened up in the summer of 2020, there was a massive shortage of cans trying to get production slots. Sonja: Everything was just extremely bumpy. Sonja: So I think the discomfort, if I get to the end of this year and I'm still in business and I'm still standing, then that actually is quite an achievement. Rob (Host): Definitely. Rob (Host): I think if you can do it, then you can probably do it in the good times as well. Sonja: Yeah, I don't really feel like I've had the good times yet. Sonja: Just as we were coming out of COVID then the energy and cost of massive inflation that kicked off last year, there was a moment last year when it felt like we were going back. Sonja: That sense of real uncertainty. Sonja: I was looking at the cost of new energy contracts for a new brewery site. Sonja: And the quotes we were getting back were just like, not, I can't run a business at a pound, a kilowatt hour. Sonja: But, yeah, so we've got through that and we're still here. Sonja: So they kind of say to me, if you can start a business in difficult times, then you're in good stead for the future. Rob (Host): Absolutely. Rob (Host): And I think you've probably answered this in a way, but when you're thinking about going from jumping ship to actually jumping ship and setting up jump ship, was it a single jump or a lot of little jumps? Sonja: I think it was a lot of little jumps. Sonja: I mean, I think there were sort of. Sonja: So from the point of having the idea and developing the recipes, I kind of did that whilst I was still doing my other job. Sonja: A big jump came when I had to sort of make it commercially. Sonja: Probably my next big jump was taking on my first employee, because then that wasn't just about me having a responsibility to someone else. Sonja: And then I guess another big jump was at the end of last year when we made the decision to raise funds, and then a huge leap into having our own brewery and all of that. Sonja: And I think there will continue to be these kind of moments of like, okay, right now it's going to change again. Sonja: And I feel we're at a point now where everything is changing. Sonja: We're almost not quite building the business from scratch, but I'm building a new business because we've got our own brewery for the first time. Sonja: We've got total control of our production. Sonja: It kind of opens up so many more opportunities for us and the way we want to brew our beer, the types of beer we want to brew, how we can bring people in and show what we're doing, having a home. Sonja: I've also got a team of five now. Sonja: There's only two of us back in May, and the types of customers that we're looking to work with moving forward is kind of all changing again. Sonja: And I think also for the first time, I feel I could really look at our whole supply chain from a sustainability point of view, and to really start to measure what we're doing in terms of carbon and start to really push forwards there as well. Sonja: Because I think while I've not had control of my supply chain, it's kind of always been a bit frustrating not to be able to do more there. Rob (Host): It sounds like you've produced a brilliant product or products, and you've sort of proven that people love it, even if you've had to do it in a way, that's where you had varying degrees of control over it. Rob (Host): So I guess setting up the brewery in your own space will allow you to take control a bit and have being in charge of your destiny to a greater extent. Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: And I think in the alcohol free space, there's quite a few brands out there, but there's not many who are making the beer themselves. Sonja: Most of it's done on contract. Sonja: And so I think for us to be able to control know intelligence are really pushing the know. Sonja: I think for me, it's only all the data points, because we'll be there with the beer every day, monitoring the fermentations hourly. Sonja: I just think we'll get such better information that's going to enable us to tweak things, to improve things, to test things, to try things out, to get a few more things wrong, because I think that's what's hard with the contract model is you have your brew slot and if that goes wrong, you might not have another brew slot for six weeks and then you're screwed. Sonja: So we've had to sort of be quite risk averse, whereas I'm quite keen just to try a few more things that might not work out, but I know we're going to learn a lot from them. Rob (Host): Absolutely. Rob (Host): And is the plan then that the brewery site would be somewhere that people can visit? Sonja: Yeah, it's in a lovely place called Rosemaryne studying. Sonja: It's some old farm buildings that have been converted into business units and it's kind of a community of makers and producers down there. Sonja: So we've got our neighbours got coffee roaster, we've got someone who's got a wildflower meadow, making skincare, botanicals. Sonja: It's a really nice, creative bunch of people down there, so we're organizing quarterly markets and things like that. Sonja: We're going to have a little tasting room and I think we're just going to just test a few things out and see who comes. Sonja: So we're going to be having some brewery tours in January and we're going to use them as a chance to see who comes along, what they're interested in, what they'd like us to do more of. Sonja: I think in the summertime, there's lots we can do with the outside space there and, yeah, I think we're just going to try things out and see what works. Sonja: Doesn't work. Sonja: We're also a small team, so I don't think we want to work every weekend. Rob (Host): No. Sonja: But, yeah, I think, for me, I've always loved brewery tours, I've loved tap rooms. Sonja: I kind of love being right next to where the beer is being made. Sonja: And I think, particularly if you don't drink at all, those kind of experiences are currently quite closed off for you. Sonja: So I think to have this really welcoming, inclusive space where we can kind of open up the magic of beer to a different audience who's currently being excluded from it, then that, to me, is really exciting. Rob (Host): Absolutely. Rob (Host): I think that's really interesting. Rob (Host): I mean, lots of us have been on brewery tours, but I don't think many people will have been on alcohol free brewery tours. Rob (Host): And to learn how that process differs and how it happens and how you can craft a low alcohol beer. Sonja: Yeah, definitely. Sonja: I know I'd go one of those. Sonja: Most of my decisions tend to be based on what would I like and then other people like that, too. Rob (Host): There's always that thing, isn't it, you're often visiting an industrial estate or a farm, building, outbuildings, those kinds of things, and driving. Rob (Host): And that doesn't always pair well with visiting a brewery. Rob (Host): But if you can go there and drink alcohol free and low alcohol beers, I think that can help. Rob (Host): And that's certainly a great destination to have. Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: And we're not too far from Edinburgh, so we're about 30 minutes drive from central Edinburgh, so I'm hoping people will come out and visit and it's a nice place to go and walk your dog and things like that as well. Rob (Host): Absolutely. Rob (Host): Lots of reasons to visit there. Rob (Host): Then what would you say to younger Sonya or to someone else who's looking to get into beer in this way? Sonja: I'd say good. Sonja: Mean, it's really hard. Sonja: I think, as I'm kind of learning, you need to keep the faith because it's hard work. Sonja: And particularly if you want to set up a brewery, the margins are tight. Sonja: You've really got to make sure that the numbers stack up. Sonja: I think you need to be really motivated and excited by what you're doing because there are going to be some really tough times. Sonja: And it is kind of having that goal that will keep you getting through them, knowing that you're going to get there and you got to have fun with it because it can be all consuming sometimes. Sonja: And I think I would say to my younger self is just be kind to yourself because it's going to be tough and there's going to be times when you're exhausted, when you're stressed, and when it feels overwhelming, just kind of keep taking those deep breaths and moving forwards. Rob (Host): That's really solid advice there. Rob (Host): How did your previous roles, and I guess your experience with sailing help you when setting up and managing jump ship? Sonja: I think sailing, you've always got to have a plan b in sailing because you never know what's going to fail on the boat. Sonja: So I think that kind of being prepared for things to go wrong is helpful. Sonja: I think also I get a lot of confidence from my sailing. Sonja: My husband and I did a six month sabbatical, sailed around the western Mediterranean, and got ourselves in some pretty hairy situations, but we got through them. Sonja: So I kind of sometimes sit down and I'll imagine, I can imagine when you're up the east coast of Sardinia and that gale came in and actually we got through that because with sailing, sometimes it is a matter of life or death and also just a lot of fun and a lot of pleasure. Sonja: And so I think that the naming of my business, jump ship it's both from like, I jump ship from everything I knew to do this, but it also brings in that sailing terminology and all the beers have got a multiple flavor to them because it's something that's given me a lot of pleasure and happiness, and I like to bring that through into the beers, I guess. Sonja: Professionally, I worked in marketing before I moved into this, and I did in my start of my career, I joined Unilever as a brand manager, which I think gave me a good understanding of a brand from all the way through. Sonja: So I worked with the factories, I worked with sales, work with packaging, production, innovation, all of that together. Sonja: So I'm working on a much tinier scale than Unilima. Sonja: I think that's kind of stayed with me as a brand has to be consistent all the way through the process. Sonja: From how you brew it, how you make it, what it looks like, how you treat people, it's all really core to everything and then how you make your decisions. Rob (Host): And on the flip side, were there other skills and things that you needed to develop as you went into jump ship loans? Sonja: I think logistics is not my strong point, but something that I've had to get my head around in terms of planning production, how beer gets moved around. Sonja: It's been brilliant. Sonja: Pete joined us as head brewer a couple of years ago, so great to have his support with that. Sonja: Sales is really a critical part of that. Sonja: And I didn't know anything about the whole entree, like how you sell into pubs and bars and restaurant groups and wholesalers and how that whole system works. Sonja: So that's been quite a steep, steep learning curve, how to manage multiple things kicking off at the same time. Sonja: Yeah, I kind of constantly confronted by things that I don't know how to do and I've not done before. Sonja: And I just kind of have to keep saying to myself, I don't know how to do this yet. Sonja: And I guess as I moved through each stage, it was like, well, I didn't know how to do that. Sonja: Basic things like, to begin with, I couldn't know how to find a warehouse. Sonja: I didn't know how a logistics company worked. Sonja: How will I move my beer to London? Sonja: Every day there's things I don't know how to do, and the brewery just takes that to the next level in terms of stuff that I need to organize. Sonja: So, yeah, every day is a school day, I think is the expression. Rob (Host): Absolutely. Rob (Host): It's sort of everything everywhere, all at once. Sonja: Yeah. Rob (Host): And I guess that changed a bit from at the start. Rob (Host): You were doing lots of that yourself. Rob (Host): But now you have a team that's sort of growing around the business, where you're able to draw on their expertise as well to help grow and develop the business. Sonja: Yeah, that's great. Sonja: Having a team, obviously bringing in Pete with his brewing knowledge. Sonja: Colin joined in June. Sonja: He's our head of sales and he's been working in the Scottish on trade for 20 years. Sonja: He's got the connections, he knows how it's work and I can learn a lot from that. Sonja: Having some more support on the marketing side of that, I think. Sonja: I don't think I realized that social media would be so overwhelming in running a business, but it is really hard because it's the thing that is still getting you at 10:00 at night, because that's when people are posting and having some support on that side as well. Sonja: In the last couple of months has been great. Rob (Host): Brilliant. Rob (Host): And I'm sure there's no typical day or week for you, but could you walk us through what maybe a week might look like for you? Sonja: There's always sort of the production meeting, working out what brews we've got coming up, checking stock levels, thinking ahead. Sonja: So what are we going to brew next? Sonja: So we might have a couple of test brews underway, so we might sit and taste them as a team, talk about them. Sonja: We like to sit and also taste what other new beers are coming out in the market, just to see what else is out there, what's good, where the gaps are, what we could do better. Sonja: There's a fair amount of admin in terms of managing invoices, cash flow forecasts, all of the important stuff that I don't love doing. Sonja: But I have learned to see the importance of dealing with new customer incoming inquiries. Sonja: Before, I used to deal with them all directly now. Sonja: So quite a lot's passed on to Colin. Sonja: But going out. Sonja: So go. Sonja: Last week we went to Bonnie and Wild, one of our big customers in Edinburgh, doing training with their team. Sonja: So it's helping them to understand the beers, understand alcohol free drinkers and learn about from know when people are ordering our beers and what they like quite a lot of in terms of the brewery project, that's in full flow. Sonja: So sitting down with Pete, working out what pieces of equipment have been ordered, what's been delivered, what still needs to come, are we still on track and just trying to troubleshoot things that might go wrong or what happens if they don't? Sonja: If that doesn't get delivered on time, we're still going to be able to brew before Christmas and as I grow the team, sitting down with them individually, making sure that they're clear with what their plan is, how I can support them, and being clear on what our targets are for the next week, and also now looking forward into 2024 as well. Sonja: I do a fair amount of chatting to other business, other business owners, whether it's other brewers or just other startup businesses, food and drink businesses around in Scotland, there's a great community there. Sonja: So asking questions, sharing ideas and kind of ways that we can collaborate. Sonja: And there's always that bit of social media posting still, or responding to comments and questions and keeping engaged with the people who are following us and who like to post about what beers they're drinking. Sonja: I think that for me is I still deal with all our customer care myself, so I love it when people who order our beer from our website get in touch, or it might just be that their parcel went astray or something wasn't right. Sonja: That they're getting that fixed for them and making sure they're happy is something that I enjoy doing. Rob (Host): I hope you're enjoying our chat, and if you like what you're hearing, there. Rob (Host): Are a few things you can do that will really help us out and. Rob (Host): Help other people find the podcast. Rob (Host): Number one, follow or subscribe to we. Rob (Host): Are beer people podcast wherever you get. Rob (Host): Your podcasts and leave a review or rating. Rob (Host): Number two, share the episode on your socials or even in actual real life. Rob (Host): And if you want to stay up to date with all things we are beer people, you can visit our website, which is Wearebeerpeople Co. Rob (Host): UK, where you can sign up for a monthly newsletter and you can follow us on social media at wearebeerpeople. Rob (Host): All one word. Rob (Host): And if you have any questions or comments or want to hear from any particular beer people, send me a message via the website or on social media. Rob (Host): Now back to the podcast. Rob (Host): That's all really exciting. Rob (Host): Do you have out of all of those things, and there's lots there, do you have kind of a favorite role or a favorite hat to wear? Sonja: It's got to be the recipe development side of it when we're deciding what to brew next, tasting the batches, thinking about what could be improved. Sonja: Yeah, that's the magic. Sonja: And I guess the other side is interacting with the people who are drinking our beer. Sonja: So when we get to do events and someone trying our beer for the first time going, oh, it's amazing because there is still a bit of skepticism about alcohol free beer. Sonja: Is it going to taste good? Sonja: And I think when we did a festival in the summer and a guy came up, he's just like, I just had one of your pints by mistake, but now I'm back for another one. Rob (Host): That's brilliant. Sonja: Another combat. Rob (Host): Absolutely. Rob (Host): I think it's the thing that at the moment you're seeing, or you're starting to see alcohol free beers make their way into lunchtime meal deals and things at supermarkets, which I don't think you would have seen twelve months ago. Sonja: No. Sonja: And I think that's the kind of thing. Sonja: It's the first step is people trying it for the first time. Sonja: And then it's beginning to kind of unlock all the times when you didn't have a beer because it was alcoholic, but now it's not alcoholic. Sonja: Oh, you can have it with lunch, it's great. Sonja: And actually, it's probably a lot healthier for you than having a can of coke or something with your lunch. Rob (Host): Definitely lots of electrolytes going on there. Rob (Host): And I guess it's as well, there's people who might have had alcohol free beers a decade or so ago. Rob (Host): They're very different to what we have now. Sonja: Yeah, I mean, we're just about four years in with junkship, and it has changed so much just in those four years from the choices that are available when I started to what's available now, which I think for me is really exciting, because I think once people have tried an alcohol free beer and liked it, then they start looking around for more. Sonja: Because it's not just about this is the one beer you can drink, it's just there's an incredible variety of styles out there now, so it's quite an exciting time to be cut down on the beers. Rob (Host): And where would you like to go with the business? Sonja: I think for me, there's kind of getting the brewery properly bedded in, firing up that big beer engine, and really making that our home and a destination, and doing more different beer styles and getting our beer better known and into more places. Sonja: So there's still a lot of people who haven't heard of jump ship and there's loads of opportunity still, I think, to expand distribution of our beer. Sonja: So, yeah, I kind of feel it's all to play for, really, in the next year or two. Rob (Host): And does the brewery open next year? Sonja: Yes, we'll be having some brewery tours in January, and then we'll be working out our plan for the rest of the year, whether it's having once a month, on a Sunday or something like that, have an opening. Sonja: There will be hopefully lots of opportunities next year. Sonja: To come and have a visit. Sonja: We were hoping to have our first brew in before Christmas. Sonja: I say that's now 50 50, but we are imminently about to brew our spatula beer in our new brewery, which should be exciting. Sonja: And I think it will probably be yardon, which is the lager that started it, or just probably, like, the most finickety beer to start off with. Sonja: But I figure if we can cut our teeth on that one, then the others should be easy. Rob (Host): Excellent. Rob (Host): Can you talk us through a little bit about how you do go about brewing one of your alcohol free beers? Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: So our beers are designed to be less than 0.5. Sonja: So we bring to strength, rather than brewing something alcoholic and stripping the alcohol out, which for me, I mean, a lot of the. Sonja: Just take the alcohol out. Sonja: You generally need a big industrial process, like vacuum distillation, which is big and expensive equipment, and I don't think necessarily improves the flavor, because by extracting the alcohol, you're generally taking out some of the flavor as well. Sonja: And then there are some alcohol free beers made which don't have any yeast in. Sonja: And it's kind of basically a beer soda carbonating mold syrups to help extracts. Sonja: For me, that's not a proper beer. Sonja: So we use standard brewing equipment, standard normal brewing ingredients. Sonja: So water, barley, yeast, and hops. Sonja: And what we're doing is managing every stage of the process to minimize the amount of sugars produced that the yeast could turn into alcohol. Sonja: Looking at the types of yeast that we use, sort of lazy yeast that aren't so good at turning sugars into alcohol, and then managing the temperatures as well. Sonja: We use some different grains and then less grain in the mash. Sonja: Mash temperature tends to be a bit higher. Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: Managing the temperature of the fermentation carefully. Sonja: Some of our beers will naturally stop below 0.5. Sonja: Some of them, we need to. Sonja: To stop them. Sonja: So it's just a case of watching and monitoring it really carefully. Sonja: But it kind of means that the beer tastes like it's supposed to. Sonja: We're not adding anything to it. Sonja: It is trying to get the mouth fill and the flavor in. Sonja: Because alcohol itself is a flavor component of beer. Sonja: It also gives a lot mouthful and a lot of body. Sonja: So when you don't have the alcohol, you've got to work really hard to compensate for that. Sonja: We tend to use a lot of oats in not all of our beers, not in the lager, but in some of our other beers to kind of get body in and speciality malts to sort of get more flavor in. Sonja: But it is amazing that small amount of fermentation really does transfer warm the beer from kind of sweet word into something really delicious. Sonja: And I can taste the difference between a beer at zero one and zero three. Sonja: It's that tiny little trace. Sonja: It makes all the difference. Sonja: And I think, as I do sometimes get asked, I don't know if it's a question you've had that is it alcohol free if it's less 0.5? Sonja: And we take the view that it's kind of in line with what most of the world defines as alcohol free. Sonja: And it's comparable to the alcohol you'd find in a large, ripe banana. Sonja: And actually, if it was a ginger beer on a kombucha, I wouldn't even need to put anything the can. Sonja: It's just because it's a beer that I need to describe it. Sonja: But yeah, I tend to find that I prefer the flavors of a 0.5 rather than a beer. Rob (Host): And this is definitely more of a hands on process through mashing and boiling, but also, I guess, mainly through fermentation. Rob (Host): So you having to be very closely monitoring that to make sure that the fermentation is doing what it needs to do. Sonja: Yes. Sonja: And also pasteurization is an important part of the process at the end, which an alcohol free beer is essentially like a soft drink. Sonja: It doesn't have alcohol as a big preservative. Sonja: So if you're taking that out, and that's actually something that I found really tricky at kind of craft production, there's not many places that offer that. Sonja: So that's probably been one of the hardest things, is finding places past rose beer in the last couple of years. Sonja: So I'm excited to have all of that equipment on site as well. Rob (Host): That's going to make such a big difference, isn't it, to all of that, you just be able to play around and tweak things and innovate and all that all on your doorstep. Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: I mean, even if from like, the pasteurization is also a part of the process that can affect the flavor as well, and getting that balance between not sort of pasteurizing it so heavily that you've killed the flavor, but that you've protected the beer. Sonja: So even being able to sort of really refine that as well would be great. Rob (Host): And so for jump ship, it all started with yardarm, but what's your favorite beer? Sonja: I tend to have a different beer for different moods, and I really enjoy having the range. Sonja: So kind of at the moment, the stout is going down a treat. Sonja: But I think probably my favorite bit will always be Yardon because I feel like I've gone on such a journey with it. Sonja: If it hadn't have been so good at the start, I might never have got started. Sonja: If it hadn't have been so good at the start, I might not have taken that next step. Sonja: And if it hadn't have been such a good beer, I wouldn't have pushed so hard in that first year to get the quality right and to launch with something that reflected the quality of the recipe developed. Sonja: And it is an easy beer to drink a lot of, and it's one that I'm hoping to be able to be pouring pints of next year as we get our keg production sorted. Sonja: There's lots more beers, and certainly we've got a lovely galaxy IPA, which was called Goosewin, which is out of production for a month or so. Sonja: And I'm looking forward to having that back because that's got a really lovely tropical hot hit to it. Sonja: But if I had to just pick one, it would be aldam fantastic. Rob (Host): I'm just going to lean over here, but I've got your cans here. Rob (Host): I love the designs on them. Rob (Host): They're so cool. Rob (Host): Obviously, I don't know the name. Rob (Host): Nautical flags. Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: So it's basically the nautical flag Alphabet. Sonja: So each letter of the Alphabet has its own flag. Sonja: So the flags that we use on the beer cans are connected to the beer. Sonja: So that's the y, a, and l flags on the yard arm can got the f and the c on the flying colors. Sonja: Yeah. Sonja: I've had a light using the flags and we can have fun with the messages and the kind of bright and colorful and cheerful. Rob (Host): Yeah, it's really nice. Rob (Host): It's really distinctive, so it's its own thing. Rob (Host): And on their own, they look really eye catching. Rob (Host): But I guess it's also if you know, you know. Rob (Host): So if someone isn't sailing, they will know exactly what that means straight away. Rob (Host): And what's your favorite place to enjoy a beer? Sonja: Well, it's probably got to be on a boat, hasn't it? Sonja: I don't get to do as much sailing as I'd like to, probably only two or three days a year at the moment, but I think there is that lovely feeling when you kind of drop tanker at the end of the day sailing and just cracking open that first beer and just sitting and enjoying the surroundings and just taking a breath and enjoying a good day out. Rob (Host): And what's the one thing you wish people knew about beer? Rob (Host): What's the biggest misconception that you think. Sonja: People have, I think it's the incredible range of flavors. Sonja: So when people say, I don't like beer, I just think you just haven't found the right beer. Sonja: I really believe there's a beer out there for everyone, from sweet, sour, bitter, hoppy, tropical, juicy, punchy, dark. Sonja: I don't believe you can't like beer. Sonja: Haven't tried hard enough. Rob (Host): Definitely an advocate for. Rob (Host): There's a beer for every occasion. Sonja: Yeah. Rob (Host): And what are you most excited about in, in the world of beer? Sonja: For me, it's all about moving away from the stigma of abv and beer just being beer, whether it's 0.5 or 4.5, and people drinking beer for the flavor and the quality, and not being hung up about how strong it is. Rob (Host): And have there been any people that have been particularly be influential, instrumental in your beer career? Sonja: Yeah, I mean, there's been so many people along the way who have helped me out. Sonja: I think James, who is the head brewer at Elchemy, where we did our first brews, he really gave me a lot of time in helping me get the recipes right and getting the beer brewed. Sonja: I think for me, as a woman in beer, seeing people like Jaco Wise and what they're doing is really inspirational. Sonja: Both as a brewer and a business owner, Scotland's a fantastic place to launch a business. Sonja: I've had a lot of support from organisations like Scottish Edge, which is a business funding competition from Scottish Enterprise, from a program called Unlocking Ambition, where I've kind of got to spend time along a cohort of other founders and been given access to lots of support to inspirational speakers. Sonja: And I think the amount of sort of goodwill I feel towards jump ship and the number of people who want us to succeed and to do well, that really makes a difference. Sonja: And I think being able to kind of just reach out to other people, whether they're brewers or not, just to kind of share the opinion as well of what it's like to grow a business has been really important to me. Rob (Host): And we talked about the can design earlier, but how did you come up with the different names as well that you use for the beers? Sonja: Once we kind of came up with jump ship, then we knew we were in a nautical line of thinking. Sonja: And I worked with a brilliant guy called Jerry, who kind of been creative director in the lead agency, a big scottish agency. Sonja: So he's like, who's got a brilliant creative mind and just sit down and kind of creating lists of lots of different nautical names and yardam stuck out because it's got a bit of a story behind it as well. Sonja: So I don't know if you ever heard the expression suns over the yard on time for a drink. Sonja: So that all dates back to the old days of the navy when the yard arm is a spa on the mast. Sonja: And once the sun was high enough over that spa, then sailors were given their first drop of rum. Sonja: With our beer, obviously the sun's open, can have it any day. Sonja: With each new beer that comes in, we kind of think about the kind of beer we're making, what the occasion is, and then go back to kind of probably got like a whole book of nautical names that we kind of go through and spark ideas and then check no one else is using them. Sonja: And away we go. Rob (Host): And we're recording this at the end of November, and I think we'll share this in December or January. Rob (Host): But what have you got coming up in the next few months? Sonja: Once we've got the brewery up and running, there's a lot of beer to be brewed. Sonja: So keeping coming back to all of our core beers, getting them out there, we might look at brushing some of them up a little bit just because we'll be making them ourselves. Sonja: And we're committed to doing a crowdsourced beer with the people who came in on our equity crowdfunding this year. Sonja: So that's going to be a bit of fun. Rob (Host): What are you doing with that? Rob (Host): Are they able to sort of help come up with the recipe? Sonja: Yeah, so we're going to sort of ask people what different styles and flavor profiles that they would like and kind of narrow that down to the beer that we brew. Sonja: Then we'll ask them to help name the beer and all the rest of it. Sonja: So it'd be interesting to see kind of how crazy people are or whether they just want something quite kind of sessionable and easy going. Sonja: Going to be doing a new version of Galaxy Heavy IPA. Sonja: We'll be looking forward to our sort of more the next edition of our shoreleaf beer. Sonja: Something maybe heading as we come out of winter. Sonja: We'd also like to do some collaborations next year. Sonja: It's not something that we've done a huge amount of so far, but it would be fun to get some different brewers into our brewery, maybe particularly ones who've not done alcohol free before, and do more of that creative sharing of ideas. Sonja: Yeah, and keg as well will be something that we've not really been able to do yet, but I think it's still quite a small market but I think there are places where people are really looking to enjoy an alcohol free pint. Sonja: So to be able to offer our beers will be amazing. Rob (Host): That'd be really cool, I think. Rob (Host): Definitely one of those things. Rob (Host): But when you can serve it in the same way that other people ordering pints, it does help break down those barriers as well. Rob (Host): So you're not going and getting a can or a bottle where other people might be getting something in a glass? Sonja: Yeah, it's just you're having a pint of beer, it doesn't really matter what the ABV is. Sonja: So I think for me, that is the ultimate, really, for no and low drinking becoming mainstream. Rob (Host): I've read on your website as well, you're donating 10% of your profits to good causes. Rob (Host): Was that something that came around at the very beginning or is that something you've sort of set up recently? Sonja: No, I set it up from the very start. Sonja: I went in the charity sector for a few years and for me, giving back is really important and to have it ingrained in the business from the start, I think it's kind of easier to do it when everything's quite small and then it grows. Sonja: So I'm kind of looking forward to, as we grow the business, that's becoming a sort of a chunkier amount that we can look to support our local community and also causes close to our Druka's hearts. Sonja: So the way we've done it so far is we've given a donation on our birthday. Sonja: So that happened this week. Sonja: So we're giving some money to the water of leaf conservation. Sonja: Charity is the one that was picked out the hat. Sonja: And then as the business grows, we'll do more. Rob (Host): Oh, brilliant. Rob (Host): And happy birthday. Sonja: Thank you. Sonja: Yeah, four years in, another four. Rob (Host): So where can people keep up to date with everything? Rob (Host): Jump ship. Sonja: So you can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. Sonja: At Jumpship beer, we have quite an active mailing list where I like to write emails to people that are not just spamming you, but hopefully telling our story of what's going on. Sonja: So you can sign up to our mailing list. Sonja: Yeah, that's probably the best ways to keep up to date with what we're up to. Rob (Host): Fantastic. Rob (Host): Thank you very much. Rob (Host): And whereabouts can we get your beer? Rob (Host): Whereabouts can we get jump ship beer? Sonja: So we've got quite a lot of stockists, mainly in Scotland at central belt. Sonja: You can look on our website, we've got a list there. Sonja: We're also available online. Sonja: Jumpship beer. Sonja: The best place to go. Rob (Host): Thank you very much. Rob (Host): For your time Sonya, it's been fantastic chatting about jump ship beer, hearing all about your story, how you got into it, very exciting times at the moment with the brewery and really looking forward to seeing what you get up to. Sonja: Thank you. Sonja: It's been great talking to you. Rob (Host): And Jumpship are looking out for you too in 2024 as they have created a special 10% off code for podcast listeners. Rob (Host): So if you're looking to try out their range of alcohol free beers, please use the code beerpeople ten for 10% off their webshop at Jumpship Beer during January. Rob (Host): And thank you very much for listening and I hope you can join me on the next one. Rob (Host): If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to the podcast and leave a review or rating. Rob (Host): This really helps us out and helps other people find the podcast, especially as we're starting out. Rob (Host): You can follow us on social media. Rob (Host): Just search wearebeerpeople Rob (Host): We have a website, wearebeerpeople.co.uk Rob (Host): UK, and you can email us on wearebeerpeoplepod@gmail.com but let us know what you think, share your thoughts, and if you have any recommendations for beer people you'd like to hear from. Rob (Host): And until next time, don't forget you, me, us, them, we are all beer people.

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