Brian Spencer

AllMarketing
Written By Rob Cadwell

Welcome to we are beer people, a podcast all about the many different people who help us enjoy beer.

It's no wonder that reconviction rates are so high (42% of all UK prison leavers will be reconvicted within 12 months). Prison leavers aren't always set-up for success, leaving with just £76, they need to build up skills and confidence, find accommodation, a place of work and prospects for the future.

I chatted with Brian Spencer, Marketing Manager at Tap Social Movement (TSM) in Oxford. 

TSM is a social enterprise with a craft brewery, bakery (Proof Bakehouse) and five hospitality venues. They're brewing award-winning beer but, perhaps most importantly, they've brewed a business that makes a difference.

Tap Social Movement creates training and employment for people in prison and prison leavers. Having a fulfilling job helps build self-confidence and resilience, and equips people for a productive and happy life. Benefiting the individual, but also wider society.

We speak with Brian and hear about his journey into the world of beer and life as a marketing manager at Tap Social and the amazing work that Tap Social does.

We also get the opportunity to speak with Rory, who works at Proof Bakehouse and we hear about the difference Tap Social has made to him and his life.

Certainly recommend visiting Tap Social and one of its venues when you're next in Oxford.

Tap Social Movement has a couple of cool beer festivals coming up in 2024, one in summer and one in winter. Head to their socials and website for more info:

22nd June (summer) and 30th November (winter)

Change Is Brewing Beer Festival

* 14 leading independent UK breweries

* Curated small-batch cask ales

* Live DJs & music

* Sourdough pizza & street food

So grab a purposeful brew and let’s have a chat with some of the beer people.

Follow us to stay updated:

Website: www.wearebeerpeople.co.uk

Social media: @wearebeerpeople on X (Twitter) and Instagram

Get in touch on email: wearebeerpeoplepod@gmail.com

Tap Social Movement:

Web / Twitter / Instagram / Facebook

United We Are:

Web / Instagram

Intro/outro music: That One Time by Midnight Daydream


Transcript

Please note this is an automated transcript (so will certainly contain errors and mistranslations but should give you a good gist of the conversation):

Rory: You know, I spent a long time. Rory: In prison, so, like, I'm learning now. Rory: I'm constantly learning. Brian: Many people don't know is once you're done with your. Brian: With your sentence, there's so many more obstacles coming after that. Brian: It's like your punishment kind of continues with that. Brian: In terms of housing and getting on your feet again, we have a good hospitality background. Brian: We want to get more involved in the social aspect of helping prisoners, you know, turn their lives around, essentially. Brian: And so they came up with the idea, like, well, let's give craft beer a go. Rory: I'm more front of house. Rory: I can engage with customers. Rory: That's a bit of me. Rory: So I'm supervising the cafe, become a barista. Rory: WhatsApp means to me, it means a great deal. Rory: And having that stable employment, which was purposeful, gave me direction, gave me opportunity, has just been amazing. Rory: It's just amazing. Rory: Just superb. Rory: All the great words. Rory: Yeah, you can find in the dictionary. Rory: There you go. Rory: All the great, amazing words. Rob (Host): Hello and welcome to we are beer people, a podcast all about the many different people who help us enjoy beer. Rob (Host): I'm your host, Rob Cadwell, and I reckon if you're listening to this, then there's a good chance that you are one of the beer people too. Rob (Host): You might be involved in the world of beer. Rob (Host): You may want to find out more about the industry, or perhaps you simply enjoy drinking the stuff. Rob (Host): So join me now as I have a chat with one of the beer people. Rob (Host): Today, I'm escaping the gravity pool of my hometown. Rob (Host): Welcome aboard this great Western Railway service to Oxford. Rob (Host): I'm off to visit a social enterprise called Tap social movement, which includes a brewery, a bakery and five hospitality venues. Rob (Host): They brew great beer and have just won a series of awards at the Sebra awards. Rob (Host): But perhaps more importantly, they've brewed a business that makes a difference. Rob (Host): Tap social movement was set up in 2016 with a goal to create training and employment for people in prison and prison leavers. Rob (Host): To provide fulfilling jobs in a network outside prison that builds confidence and sets people up to succeed and to be productive and happy outside prison. Rob (Host): That's something that benefits those involved, but also society more broadly. Rob (Host): Today, I have not one, but two guests. Rob (Host): I'm speaking with Tap social's marketing manager. Speaker D: Brian Spencer, and I'm also speaking with. Rob (Host): Rory, who's a prison leaver that's joined Tapsocial, working at Proof Bake House. Rob (Host): And we hear from him directly about how much of a difference it has made to his life and his plans after prison. Rob (Host): So join me as we head into Oxford's covered market and have a chat with some of the beer people. Speaker D: Hello, Brian, and thank you very much for joining us today. Speaker D: And a very big welcome to we are beer people. Brian: Thanks for having us, Brian. Speaker D: So we're sat in the market tap, which I've never been to before, but it's in this beautiful covered market right in the centre of Oxford, and you've got loads of different businesses that are here, and bang in the middle is the market tap with all of your beers, coffees, pastries, some amazing seating areas, kind of indoors and outdoors. Speaker D: It's a lovely place to be. Speaker D: Thank you very much for having us. Brian: Thanks for coming out. Rory: Thank you. Speaker D: So, Brian, you're marketing manager at Tapsocial. Speaker D: I'm going to start by asking if you can just introduce yourself a little bit and tell us how you started off in your career and how you've got to being marketing manager at Tapsocial. Brian: Sure. Brian: So, again, thanks for coming out. Brian: It's really nice to have you out here in the very chilly environment of the market tap. Brian: Yeah. Brian: My name is Brian Spencer, I'm the marketing manager at Tap Social. Brian: I've been with the company since fall 2022. Brian: And I just moved to Oxford in 2021, kind of at the tail end of COVID It was a very accidental move. Brian: It wasn't meant to be permanent. Brian: It's a very long story and a boring story, but randomly ended up in Oxford, of all places. Brian: When I first got here in the fall of 2021, I'd never been to Oxford. Brian: Spent a lot of time in England over the last probably seven or eight years. Brian: My partner is an academic who specializes in british literature. Brian: So we spent maybe two or three months a year in London before COVID So, not new to England, but to Oxford is very new. Brian: And we just kind of really fell in love with it. Brian: Just the right kind of change of pace. Brian: We were coming from Singapore. Brian: The way I found tap social, actually, is I moved here and we got our address and I literally went on Google Maps. Brian: This is very cliche, but I just typed in craft beer near here, near my house, and tap social came up and it was very, very close. Rory: I was like, wow, awesome. Brian: This is tap room, right by where we live. Brian: And so I just started going there just as a fan. Brian: Learned a lot more about the company over time, met some people who run it and one thing led to another and, yeah, here I am sitting here talking to you. Brian: Brilliant. Speaker D: It's amazing, that sort of that search on Google for craft beer, pubs and. Brian: All that sort of stuff, most random places, and sometimes I'm surprised by the result, but it's actually very helpful. Brian: But then you get the results where it's like a craft beer on the menu and you show up and it's exactly. Speaker D: You can see what's actually on tap as well and all that sort of stuff. Speaker D: That's always a help. Speaker D: So that's fantastic. Speaker D: So you found out it was near to you. Speaker D: How did you go then from jumping from visiting it, liking the beers, presumably, and then working for. Brian: It's a long process. Brian: So when I first moved here, I was still working remotely for a very small craft brewery in Singapore, doing their marketing here, as I do for tap social. Brian: And I met Tess, who's one of their co founders, and I just kind of introduced myself and there wasn't necessarily job opening at that. Brian: I just. Brian: I kind of stayed in touch with Tess and I think that opportunity came up for someone of my skills and I just kind of went with it from there. Brian: I mean, it's not that interesting of a story how I became to work with them, but it's really in many ways been a dream job for me. Brian: Coming from my background and coming to Oxford and just being able to really kind of dive into the community and all the things. Brian: Tap social is very involved in Oxford and it's been, in so many ways just a really rewarding thing, not just in what we do at tapsocial, but just being able to kind of jump into the community and meet so many different people from so many different organizations here in Oxford. Brian: Oxford's a very socially minded place and so I've just met so many interesting people and within tap social and outside, just from being in this role, it's been really fun. Speaker D: Fantastic. Speaker D: And can you tell us a little bit about tapsocial movement and what it's all about, why it was set up and what its objectives are? Brian: Yeah. Brian: So, tapsocial, we celebrated our 7th birthday last November. Brian: So we started. Speaker D: Congratulations. Brian: Thank you. Brian: Seven years wild. Brian: Especially knowing from where we started. Brian: The interesting thing, I think, about tap social that I found very interesting when I learned this was a lot of breweries, you start for different reasons, right? Brian: You start a business for all kinds of different reasons. Brian: Tap social wasn't started to just brew great beer. Brian: We do brew great beer. Brian: It's gotten better and better, I think, over the years, as most brewers, I. Speaker D: Can attest for that, because I tried some. Speaker D: It's absolutely lovely. Brian: Yeah, that's very kind. Brian: Thank you. Brian: But tapsocial was founded for a purpose and not a product. Brian: So our three co founders, Paul, Amy and Tess, Amy and Tesser sisters, they all have criminal justice backgrounds. Brian: Paul is an independent barrister when tap socialist started, Amy's working as a senior policy advisor at the Ministry of Justice. Brian: Kind of a focus on reforms and improving efficiencies and how prisoners and prison leavers are treated. Brian: And Tess was working as a. Brian: Well, she's working in hospitality in London when they started, but before that she's from Canada and she's working as a counselor to nonprofit, specifically working with youths and trying to get their kind of past offenses and things stricken from their record, basically. Brian: So they all had kind of something they all had essentially a stake in and something they felt passionate about. Brian: And I think without speaking for them, the story is that they decided they wanted to do something a little bit more. Brian: They wanted to get more directly involved in the process, I think especially when they were seeing people at the end of their time here. Brian: And then, as I've learned and many people don't know, is once you're done with your sentence, there's so many more obstacles coming after that. Brian: It's like your punishment kind of continues in terms of housing and getting on your feet again. Brian: So I think that they decided, look, we have a good hospitality background. Brian: We want to get more involved in the social aspect of helping prisoners turn their lives around, essentially, and get involved, not just when they're kind of out the door. Brian: And so they came up with the idea like, well, let's give craft beer a go. Brian: They are all craft beer fans. Brian: Just, they didn't really have any necessarily experience in it. Brian: And they just kind of threw two sheets to the wind and went for it. Brian: They hired Jason, who's our head brewer, has been with us since the start. Brian: And we started at the tap room on a very small kit with, I think, 1000 liter fermentation space. Brian: And now we moved to our new brewery in May 2022. Brian: Well, we've had another brewery before that, but we've now doing 2000 liter batches, which each brew, we have 22,000 liters of fermentation space. Brian: So still very small, but scaling up very quickly. Brian: Yeah. Speaker D: And you've got several tap rooms now to fill, haven't you? Brian: We have five venues, for sure. Speaker D: We've got to keep the beer flowing. Brian: Yes, it's a challenge. Brian: It's a good thing. Brian: I do think it sounds like the growth has been very sustainable and measured. Brian: The venues, they all have their own specific advantages and disadvantages, I should say. Brian: But I think it's nice to this kind of helps us kind of have a larger footprint across Oxfordshire and help people discover us. Speaker D: Fantastic. Speaker D: So you obviously started with beer, but you also now do, as I say, things like coffee, pastry, this bakery as well, isn't it attached to. Brian: Yeah, it's really cool, actually. Brian: And I would think this was cool even if I mentioned we had another brewery. Brian: So when we went from the taproom, which we still use actually, to brew mostly cascale, at this point, we went to another brewery in Kennington, which is just south of central Oxford, right off the River Thames. Brian: And that brewery, when we moved to our current one, we completely gutted that original space, transformed it to an open plan commercial bakery, which is called proof social Bakehouse. Brian: Now, it's really nice. Brian: Our team down there is smashing it. Brian: It's about going on two years old now. Brian: Yeah. Brian: Croissants, pastries, breads. Brian: Lots of decadent things that I'm not. Speaker D: What's not to like? Brian: Yeah. Speaker D: In January, bleakest of months. Speaker D: Why do we do this to ourselves? Brian: Exactly. Speaker D: But that's fantastic. Speaker D: And can you tell us, talk to a little bit about the obstacles that people face as they're leaving prison and I guess trying to build a life onwards for them. Speaker D: And I've seen some of the stats where it's quite high for people reoffending, being caught in that loop, that trap again. Brian: Yeah, it's been an eye opening experience for me. Brian: I don't have a criminal justice background and everything that I've learned about, especially the UK criminal justice system, has been since I've been with temp social. Brian: It's crazy. Brian: I think if you look at our false economy cans, like, each of our cans has a little kind of stat about the prison system and all that stuff. Brian: People are given 76 pounds when they leave prison, and if they don't have anywhere to live, they maybe get a tent and it's good luck. Brian: That's tough. Brian: That's tough for a lot of people, especially coming from certain backgrounds, they may not have the family support or certainly the social support. Brian: So I think what we are trying to do is show that training while you're in prison, or trying to empower people while they're serving their time and giving out their sentence, which is supposed to end when you leave, right. Brian: You serve your time and then you're supposed to get out there in the next stage in life. Brian: And so we trying to show that training and employment, day release programs and things like that can help people get back on their feet more easily. Brian: And it certainly reduces reoffending rates. Brian: I don't want to misspeak here, but I think that the reoffending rate is very, very high for people without employment, people who work with us, which is admittedly a small sample size, still at this point, is one 10th of the national average of reoffending. Brian: So I think that we're trying to use our model as an example that can be applied to other businesses across the UK. Speaker D: Yeah, that's very interesting. Speaker D: As you say, it's not a simple step out from leaving prison to going into a place of work, going into having accommodation, having that network of people around you. Brian: Right. Speaker D: How does tap social address some of those things for people who are on day release from prison or have left prison? Brian: So it's kind of a case by case basis. Brian: You'll speak with Rory later and kind of hear about his experience a little bit. Rob (Host): Stay with us, as we'll be chatting with Rory a little later in the podcast. Brian: About one third of our staff across the brewery and all of our venues has had contact with the criminal justice system in the UK. Brian: So in terms of how we support people, it's pretty remarkable, honestly. Brian: I think one of the things I noticed really quickly, before I even started working for tapsocial, is the time that we're a growing company, a small company, and yet still our co founders and our staff spend a lot of time with each individual person and kind of catering support that they get to the support that they need, if that makes sense. Brian: So that might mean training, that might mean helping with housing, that might mean giving recommendations for other jobs once they move on. Brian: From tap social, it's pretty disparate, really, and I know that sounds really vague, but again, it's trying to support people with employment while they're in prison, while they're after. Brian: And once they're done with tep social, several of the guys who we work with gone on to start their own companies. Brian: And so we kind of just help see them through and get them on solid footing, have their self esteem built up, there's confidence, and basically just try to get them set for the next stage of life in a positive way. Speaker D: Yeah, I think in a way it's probably being an understanding, more human company or place to work that you appreciate. Speaker D: Someone might not be having their best. Brian: Day every day, so you're there for. Speaker D: That, but you're also there to actively guide someone and help them get the skills they need, the network they need to grow, and to move on with their. Brian: You know. Brian: I think, you know, you asked me why I work with tap social. Brian: I mean, there's a lot of reasons. Brian: One of the things I really appreciate about working here is I've always kind of felt strongly even before I was working within the industry, when I was covering the industry as a journalist. Brian: I think it's important in a vice industry. Brian: I mean, let's be honest, it's alcohol and I love it, of course, but I think it's important to give back. Brian: And a lot of, I think in craft beer specifically, it's one of the great things about craft beer is they're very community minded, very socially minded in general. Brian: And I think that we're not unique in that way of giving back to the community. Brian: But I think it's important to work for a company that does, and we certainly do. Brian: And I think it's nice to kind of know that what I do and what my colleagues do is making a real difference in people's lives. Brian: It's one thing to, and I'm not speaking about any breweries necessarily, but you see a lot of big corporations, they'll give a donation to a red cross, and there's nothing wrong with Red Cross or whoever it might, you know, it's just a big donation that goes into a big pot and you don't know where it's going and you don't really see that specific impact on this level. Brian: You really do see a specific impact in people's lives. Brian: And I think that for me, that's really rewarding to see. Rory: Taste it. Speaker D: And I was seeing on your sort of latest stats you've been sharing on your crowdfunder, that's about around 80,000 kind of working hours that have gone into the project so far. Brian: Yeah. Speaker D: So it's a huge amount that's going to make real difference to loads of different lives. Speaker D: Yeah. Brian: Added up, I think we added it up to about 38, 39 full years of full time employment. Brian: Wow. Brian: And so that we've been here for seven years again, it's still small and still small sample size, but so far so good. Speaker D: So you're a marketing manager at Tapsocial. Speaker D: So responsible for getting the word out there, I think, amongst many other things. Speaker D: But can you tell us a little bit about, I guess, your roles before then and how they kind of lent themselves to the different roles, the different hats that you have to wear as a marketing manager? Brian: Sure. Brian: So I think I mentioned I lived in Singapore before Oxford for about ten years. Brian: I was a freelance journalist for most of that time and with a specializing in travel. Brian: And I very quickly realized when I was traveling, that I was always being drawn to the craft beer scene. Brian: Obviously, I'm a craft beer enthusiast, but I found that craft beer is often a kind of gateway into some of the best bits of a destination. Brian: Right. Brian: It's not just about the beer. Brian: I would go even here, you see posters for the music scene, and you see other venues that are showing music, and you usually meet nice people, and they've got good restaurant recommendations. Brian: And so I've always found that craft beer is a really good gateway into kind of learning about our destination. Brian: And so my writing career, I very quickly pivoted towards focusing on beer travel. Brian: I launched a website several years ago called Beer Travelist. Brian: Much like a podcast is kind of a passion project. Speaker D: Not to say that it absolutely is. Brian: You know what I mean? Brian: Yeah. Speaker D: There's no money in podcasting at the moment, certainly not for me. Brian: There was no money in my side. Brian: But I will say one of my other freelance gigs afforded me the opportunity to travel on very cheaply. Brian: And so I would go out and do everything I need to do on that assignment, and then I would just rush out and just dive into weird craft beer bars in Tokyo and strange places in Malaysia that serve craft beer. Brian: One of my favorite visits was this place called fat, fat beer horse in shamen in China. Brian: I call him crazy David. Brian: If you're listening to this, you're not crazy. Brian: Kind of a crazy german guy set up this weird craft brewery in Xiaomen, of all know. Brian: Very interested in craft beer, and not just in the beer itself, but in the stories around. Brian: So, you know, when Covid hit, I kind of went through a period where I had to kind of make decision. Brian: Travel went away and things like that. Brian: And so a friend of mine, or acquaintance of mine from when I had written about him, got in touch, and he, you know, I have this opportunity. Brian: Do you want to come work with me? Brian: I'm starting to start going from a bar to a brewery called renmin, and that's kind of how my formal marketing in the industry started. Brian: And I worked there for several years. Brian: It was a really good experience. Brian: And, yeah, that led me here. Brian: What do I do here? Brian: We're a very small company, so you can probably imagine that marketing manager doesn't fully encapsulate everything. Brian: So it's really cool, though. Brian: And the nice thing, I make that sound like it's intimidating. Brian: It's not. Brian: It's very nice because I get to not just be involved in marketing, but also in kind of brewery planning and sales support. Brian: And I help out with the venues as much as I can. Brian: So I kind of have a small hand in almost everything we do, which is very rewarding, very challenging. Brian: I've learned so much in the last year and a half, and I'm still learning. Brian: And I think that it's a nice thing to have a job where you're just learning, right. Brian: And you're kind of getting better at what you do, hopefully. Speaker D: I love the name of that bar in China. Brian: Fat, fat beer horse. Brian: That's the one. Brian: If you ever get to Xiaoman, please go. Speaker D: Yeah, I will do. Brian: David will take good care of you. Speaker D: I'd be interested to know if you've been to lots of different craft beer places in different countries, what were they like? Speaker D: What were the differences? Speaker D: What were the similarities that you're seeing? Brian: So many different. Brian: I mean, I've been very fortunate. Brian: I made travel a priority in my life when I was just out of university, and I never, ever imagined that I would be so fortunate enough to be able to travel like I have. Brian: I feel very lucky. Brian: I've got to see a lot. Speaker D: I think Covid probably makes us appreciate that massively as well. Speaker D: When that sort of tap is switched off, you can't do that. Brian: So I guess what I'm saying is, I've been very fortunate to see a lot of places, and a lot of people have, too, but they're so different. Brian: We spent a summer in Byron Bay, Australia, which is home to stone and wood. Brian: I don't know if you're familiar with them. Brian: We live just down the road from their brewery and taproom. Brian: The australian experience of surfing and sun is so different than going to. Brian: Obviously, one of the last places I went to before COVID is here at Suka in Japan, which is a train ride from Tokyo. Brian: This place called, and I don't know how to pronounce it, Yigdrasil. Brian: Y-G-G-D-R-A-S-I-L. Brian: Yggdrasil. Brian: I don't know. Speaker D: I can't help you at all. Brian: Again, it was like this kind of, like, weird, kind of old school surfing destination on the coast of Japan. Brian: And randomly, this french guy running a heavy metal craft brewery in here at Suka, of all places, sitting there, and my favorite band, clutch, comes on the tv while I'm sitting there doing an interview. Brian: Craft beer, especially independent craft beer, there's an identity and a certain characteristic that you don't. Brian: You just have to appreciate that, I think. Brian: Not to sound jaded or anything like that, but monoculture is creeping across the world, right, with chains and all these things, and it's not a unique observation of thought, but I think in craft beer that individual personality is really a cool thing because it reflects a small number of people and their kind of outlook on life and the way that they express that. Brian: And I think that more than any difference is specific to destinations, it's just specific to each company, and I really enjoy that. Brian: I think that tap social has a very specific identity, specific message that we want to get out beyond just our social mission. Brian: So I think, yeah, there's no other industry I'd rather work in. Speaker D: Here's to that. Speaker D: Yeah, I think I'll just reflect on what you're saying. Speaker D: I think there's that thing of craft breweries helping you explore the place around you and connect with the place where you are, connect with those people, the connections they have. Speaker D: For example, tap social movement, your kind of mission and what you're set out to do. Speaker D: But it can also give you that window into the world as well. Speaker D: So particularly craft beer at the moment, your hops might be from the UK, but they're probably from the states or from New Zealand or from Germany or any other place like that. Speaker D: But you can also explore worlds like that, and you've got a lens for how you're exploring that, but it is a way of kind of exploring where you are, but also the greater world as well. Brian: Yeah, exactly. Speaker D: I think around it. Brian: Yeah. Brian: I mean, breweries express themselves in their beer, obviously, and we do as well. Brian: But if you look at our event calendar, we have all kinds of crazy events, and I think what we try to do, or what I like to say, and this is not an official tagline or anything like that, is we care about what we do, we love what we do, but we have a good time doing it. Brian: And hopefully you can get to our beer festival this summer. Brian: But I think that's a really nice expression of who we are and what we're all about, because it's a big beer festival and there's so many good beer festivals in the UK especially. Brian: But our festivals are just a certain vibe there that I think really nicely encapsulates what we're all about. Brian: It's not just pounding beers, the pound beers, and again, not saying that any other festival is like that, necessarily, but it's just kind of a small thing, small gathering of well behaved. Brian: Weird word, I guess. Brian: But our first one we had in 2022 changes brewing festival, and we had, I think, three or four security. Brian: We're very nervous, right? Brian: It's the first time doing a big scale festival like that. Brian: For three or four security last year and there was not a single incident last year we stepped our security down one person and now it's like, do we even need someone names? Brian: I don't know. Brian: We draw a nice crowd. Brian: Really good. Speaker D: So when's that happening? Brian: So that thank you for the promo segue this year. Brian: It's June 22 at our tap room. Brian: We are hoping to have about 13 or 14 guest breweries for the summer one. Brian: We have eight confirmed now that have been long time confirmed and we're filling it out right now. Brian: But we have some of the breweries that we've had before, including Verdon Cloudwater, previous in Beer Co. Brian: Orbit beers. Brian: A lot of our friends elusive brewing will be there. Brian: And then we have another one in the winter which is slightly smaller. Brian: And that will be on the 30 November. Brian: Nice. Speaker D: I'll pop that in the show notes as well. Speaker D: People can see that. Speaker D: That sounds great. Rob (Host): I hope you're enjoying our chat and if you like what you're hearing, there are a few things that you can do that really help us out and help other people find the podcast, follow or subscribe to we are beer people. Rob (Host): Wherever you get your podcasts and leave a review or rating, share the episode on your socials or even in actual real life. Rob (Host): And if you want to stay up to date with all things, we are beer people. Rob (Host): You can visit our website, wearbeerpeople Co. Rob (Host): Uk where you can sign up for a monthly newsletter. Rob (Host): And of course you can follow us on social media at we are beer people. Rob (Host): If you have any questions or comments or want to hear from any beer people, then pop me a message. Rob (Host): Now back to the podcast. Speaker D: How do you work with the brewing team then from a marketing perspective, are you sort of saying, I'd really love you guys to do like a fest beer? Speaker D: Or do they say, actually we want to do this. Speaker D: How does it work between you guys? Brian: It's a very cliche relationship marketing guy. Brian: Me, I would love to do another hazy ipa. Brian: Let's do a hazy pale because they sell and they're delicious and this is what I drink. Brian: And the brewers Auger, it's not quite like that, but there's a lot of give and take. Brian: And I think that our sales team has grown a little bit over the last year. Brian: And so the nice thing that that relationship has, how that's kind of evolved is we now have a sales perspective to balance the marketing perspective, to balance the brewery perspective. Brian: And I think we work really well as a team. Brian: So every year around now, we've already done our planning for this year. Brian: We get together, we kind of each have our ideas, we talk about what worked, what didn't work, and we try to schedule in a reasonable number of new beers while still focusing on our cores. Brian: That's our bread and butter. Brian: And so I think that in terms of how that relationship works, there's a know Jason and Ben, who are our two brewers. Brian: They're very flexible. Brian: I got to give them credit. Brian: And they work so mean. Brian: With the amount of volume that we do for two guys, it's remarkable what they do. Brian: I'm generally in awe of how they keep up with everything because it's not just the brewing, it's the ingredients and all the other things that you don't think about as brewer. Speaker D: All the operational stuff. Brian: Yeah, exactly. Brian: So it's a give and take. Brian: We have a pretty good relationship right now, I'd like to think. Brian: I think last year we were somewhat ambitious in the styles and quantity of new beers that were put out. Brian: This year, I think we're stepping back just slightly, just a little bit. Brian: And I think the nice thing for me, at least from my perspective, is that we learned a lot last year with doing all these different styles. Brian: And I think that we're going to be able to apply some of those learning moments from last year to our offering this year. Speaker D: Are there styles of beer that you think work particularly well? Brian: I think that there's a certain part of our team that would love to pump out more sours. Brian: So we have a beer, actually, that we brewed for our 7th birthday, which is an amaretto sour that we did with proof bake house. Brian: I think we'd like to do more sours. Brian: Sours are a tough sell. Brian: They're a niche product. Brian: And so I think that from a sales perspective, sours are tricky. Brian: Unless you're a vault city or someone like sour. Brian: And everyone turns to them for sours. Brian: But for us, it's something we do on occasion. Brian: Right now, I think I mentioned that in our tap room, we still use that kit. Brian: We're doing mostly cascale. Brian: We have a year round cascale now called Carter House. Brian: And that pretty much takes up all the capacity we have at that brewery. Brian: But if we're able to free up some time, I think we'd like to do more small batch sours that are maybe just available locally because we like to brew them in terms of what works, I think that our team, we have five core beers, not including the cascale. Brian: And the nice thing about doing the cores is you do them over and over and over again, and you can make small tweaks as you go, and you can learn from that and you perfect those things. Brian: And I think, as a craft beer guy who likes to try lots of different things, I love when new breweries are putting out new beers all the time. Brian: Let's try new things. Brian: And I think that there's a period where I didn't appreciate a core range as like, it's kind of boring, it's always available, and I really have learned to appreciate that a little bit more. Brian: And I think you're seeing more breweries move into a core range. Brian: I think even verdant now has a set core range, and Polly's has a core range. Brian: So these kind of very specific, kind of hazy specialists are doing a core range as well, more and more often. Brian: So, personally, I would love to bang out more. Brian: Six and a half to seven and a half percent hazy ipas. Brian: That's what I'd like to drink. Brian: Yeah, they're more expensive to make. Brian: Our kit. Brian: Our sweet spot that we've learned is around 6%, six to six and a half percent max, for whatever reason. Brian: And so I think that our core range, honestly, is a very good expression of what we're good at. Brian: That makes sense. Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. Speaker D: Maybe a bit of a random question now, but what do you think people would be surprised to know about the taps Oakshaw movement? Brian: That is a good question. Brian: That is random. Brian: Well, I've already kind of touched on it. Brian: Two people in a brewery, people within the industry maybe would not be surprised to learn that, because there are a lot of small breweries. Brian: We're pumping out high quality beer in a decent volume with very small teams. Brian: But I think people outside of the industry might be surprised to learn that we have two full time brewers that are handling everything in the brewery. Brian: Some of our staff will come in and help on canning days. Brian: We don't have a very fancy canning line that is all automated or anything like that. Speaker D: Nice and manual production line. Brian: Yeah, I've done my time, mate, and I have got to do it again soon. Brian: I think what we're able to accomplish with the number of people we have in the brewery, and I think across the team, really, I'm proud of that. Brian: I'm proud of Jason and Ben and the brewery for what they do. Brian: The quality has just gotten better and better. Brian: It was never low, but it's gotten better and better. Brian: We got a couple really nice awards medals recently at the Society of Independent Brewers association awards our first gold medal for inside out, which is our course, oatmeal stout. Brian: And it's a lot of work to do what we do, even as a small brewery. Brian: And I think, I'm not sure who are outside the industry quite understand, everything goes into it. Speaker D: Yeah, I can appreciate that. Speaker D: I think there's that. Speaker D: That runs throughout craft beer, doesn't it? Speaker D: There's a lot of people who are very passionate about what they do and give their all to stuff. Brian: Craft beer is a very scrappy industry. Brian: Yeah. Speaker D: And have to be. Speaker D: Everyone's mucking in, doing things, as you say, helping out on packaging day. Speaker D: And if you're doing a marketing role, you've got lots of different hats on. Speaker D: As an example, if you're a brewer, you're not just brewing, you're cleaning, you're ordering, you're doing everything all at the same time. Brian: Everything. Speaker D: People at once. Brian: One day, whatever willing, we'll have a boxing machine that makes them fold the boxes for. Speaker D: Isn't it the boxomatic four box? Speaker D: That's right. Speaker D: We can all work towards that. Speaker D: And I was wondering then, so on that point of people doing lots of different things, how do you involve prison leavers in the different roles available within tap social movement? Speaker D: What kind of roles might people be doing within the brewery and the bakery? Brian: Yeah, it really varies. Brian: We have people pretty much in every aspect of the company helping out, especially in our venues. Brian: I think most of the time that guys will work in our venues. Brian: We've had some come through and kind of help with senior management team, with planning. Brian: It just really depends on background, what they're comfortable with, what their experience maybe is, what kind of work they want to do after prison. Brian: And so I think that Paul and Amy and Tess, they do, and Matt, who's our other director, and he works with the brewery team, I think they kind of cater each position to that person's experience. Speaker D: You're very much matching it to the person. Speaker D: And so you would have people working in the brewery helping know packaging day, learning about the brewing process and that, as well as helping out in hospitality. Brian: Yeah, pretty much. Brian: I mean, the interesting thing, when someone comes to us who's either finishing up their sentence or they're a leaver, it's not like there's a proclamation made across the company, like there's a new prisoner joining us or something. Brian: There's no stigma is the word I want to use. Brian: So I don't know who's coming or going from that side of the company. Brian: Everyone's just treated equally, which I really appreciate. Brian: There's not okay. Brian: Just so you know, it's just we're all colleagues, we're all treated fairly and equally in the same way, then it's. Speaker D: On that person to share as they want or not. Brian: Yeah. Speaker D: What would you say to someone who is looking to get into a similar role as you? Brian: Wow, this is the worst answer in the world. Brian: And it's still going to come out of my mouth. Brian: Be passionate about what you want to do and just be prepared to do know. Brian: Even when I started with renmin in Singapore, I felt overwhelmed to go from what I expected to be doing to what I was actually doing in terms of working with designers on label design to packaging. Brian: We're a contract brewery, so managing beer, coming from Vietnam and Italy, of all places, I think it's just be willing to learn, be willing to work very hard and just love what you do. Brian: I think that all those things with anything, not just in beer, but in anything, if you love what you do and you're willing to learn, and I think you can do anything if you put your mind to it. Brian: This is the worst answer. Brian: I'm sorry. Brian: Inspirational. Speaker D: It's the culture sense. Brian: No? Speaker D: The passion that carries you through, though, isn't it? Brian: It is true. Speaker D: And being open and flexible to those opportunities as they come around. Brian: Yeah. Brian: And don't be a jerk. Brian: I don't know, that's a good life thing. Rory: Right. Brian: But I'm very lucky. Brian: I'm very lucky to be in this position, to be working for this company. Brian: And I'm not just saying that I feel very fortunate. Brian: I would like to think that I've worked very hard to get to this position. Brian: I've been very fortunate to get here. Rob (Host): I'll leave it at that. Speaker D: So when you're setting up, like, tap social movement, do you see obstacles in society or with local authorities to setting up such a scheme, or do you see opportunities and people really wanting to help you? Brian: That's a big question, and I wish that one of our co founders was here to answer. Brian: What I will say, though, is, and what I do know is that there are a lot of employers in the UK, and I'm sure in the world, that will just full stop, not hire someone with a criminal record, just full stop. Brian: Which doesn't make sense if you look at our labor shortages here in the UK. Brian: So I think that that's a huge obstacle, just having that background. Brian: It doesn't matter who you are, what you're doing. Brian: Oh, you have a previous offense. Brian: Sorry. Brian: So I think what we're trying to do is show the world, essentially, the UK, and we're not the only ones doing it, is to show people that everyone gets a second chance, third chance, fourth chance if you want it, if you're working towards it. Brian: So I think that's really what we're trying to accomplish. Brian: But, yeah, it is very difficult for people. Brian: I can't imagine, really. Speaker D: It's very much catch 22 as well, isn't it? Speaker D: So if you come out there and your cv, as it were, in quotes, is, I've just left prison, someone has to give you a chance, don't they. Brian: To show what you can do. Speaker D: That's what you guys are doing. Speaker D: And without that, that person's not going to have that. Speaker D: To be able to then show to future employers or anything like that. Brian: Yeah. Brian: The nice thing is I manage our socials with some help from others, but once in a while I'll get a message from somebody who's saying, hey, I run x and x business and I really love what you guys do. Brian: Do you have any resources or. Brian: How can I start working with prison leavers? Brian: And that's the whole point, right? Brian: I wish we got more of those messages, but we get them. Brian: It's really nice. Brian: We've worked with a couple of companies, I can't recall the names off top of my head, but who are trying to adopt our model, and that's the. Rob (Host): Whole reason we're here. Speaker D: So what would you say is your favorite thing about working at tapsocial? Brian: I love waking up. Brian: And despite sometimes feeling like there's not enough time in the day to accomplish what I need to accomplish, whether from an outside expectation or internal, I love having a small hand in everything, almost everything that we do. Brian: I love that. Brian: I find that very rewarding. Brian: Even if it's helping with a small design tweak on a label can, or helping name the beers, or getting to meet so many other great people in the industry. Brian: Man, if you had told me when I first started coming to the UK regularly, I was really into wild beer. Brian: Wild Beer Co. Brian: Was one of my gateway brewers. Speaker D: Love wild beer. Brian: We could have another discussion. Speaker D: They may have been our wedding beer. Speaker D: Had some nincafe for that. Speaker D: Yeah, that threw quite a lot of people who are expecting champagne and then. Brian: Said they got moto supper on surprise. Brian: But if you told me back then that not only would I be working within the industry, but having contacts with some of these breweries that I love so much, we're working with verdant now. Brian: Yeah, we've collaborated with some really great breweries, getting to know James and the crew at Pretty decent Beer Co. Brian: In London. Brian: Such a big fan of what they very I love working in this industry in general. Brian: That is really cliche. Brian: Very general. Brian: But I love it. Brian: I love having. Brian: I would again, if I was just doing one thing, just doing our instagram for example, or just doing, which I love doing. Brian: But if I was just doing one thing and didn't kind of have that opportunity to make a small difference in. Rob (Host): Various things, I would be sad. Speaker D: So I'm going to get on to maybe for some people, the exciting part of the podcast where I'm going to ask you, if I had to press you to pick one beer, what is. Rob (Host): Your favorite beer and why? Brian: Well, I will pick one from our core range since if someone's listening to this they could ideally to go buy this is time better spent. Brian: It's a 5.1% IPA. Brian: All of our beers are very modern, but not on the. Brian: I always, often say we're not on the pointy end of craft beer. Brian: We don't make the haziest and hoppiest beers in the world. Brian: Time better spent for me is a just beautifully balanced IPA. Brian: We use the classic combo citrus mosaic in that rounded off with a little chinook. Brian: That beer is our best selling beer. Brian: That beer is well known throughout Oxford. Brian: I hope one day across the UK, when I think about an IPA, an everyday IPA, that's what I think about. Brian: And so I think that of anything in the core range, time better spent is far and away my personal thing. Speaker D: We know what your favourite beer is. Speaker D: Where would be your favourite place to drink a beer? Brian: Outside of tap social, right? Speaker D: Yeah, maybe let's do inside then outside. Speaker D: Where's your favorite tap social place? Speaker D: I'm going to get in trouble. Speaker D: No favorites. Brian: Of course. Brian: My favorite venue is to have a beer when I go out, which is never. Brian: Thank you for six year old sons. Brian: Makes it hard. Brian: If I had to have a beer at a top social venue, I really like going to the White House, which is our pub just south, south of here. Brian: It's about a ten minute walk from downtown. Brian: It's a great two listed pub and I think for me it's everything that I want in a modern pub. Brian: It's not a boozer. Brian: There aren't gambling machines in the corner. Brian: The artwork all around there is all the art that we've got from guys in prison. Brian: The bright, airy space. Brian: We have ten beers on tap there. Brian: Two cascades, nice range of cans. Brian: It's just a really kind of friendly, cozy place. Brian: I like going there when I can. Brian: Outside of tap social. Speaker D: In Oxford or somewhere warmer. Brian: That's a much bigger question. Brian: How about I'll choose London? Brian: Yeah. Brian: I mentioned I spend a lot of time in London. Brian: I love the Earl of Essex. Brian: Have you ever been to Earl? Brian: I don't think I have, no. Brian: It's kind of part of the Graceland chain. Brian: When I say chain, they have a very ownership of several different very independent clubs. Brian: I've been going there for 20 years now and I just have so many happy memories of that place. Brian: The beer is great. Brian: It's well kept. Brian: It's right in Islington, off the angel station. Brian: I've loved the Earl basics and I miss going there. Speaker D: Nice. Brian: Yeah. Speaker D: That's a good reason to visit London, if nothing else. Speaker D: And so what have you got coming up at tap social over the next few months? Brian: Well, as I mentioned, we have kind of gotten our 2024 planning out. Brian: I don't know that anyone's listening to this to get inside scoops, but I probably shouldn't reveal too much of what we have. Brian: But we are currently developing an alcohol free pale ale for several reasons. Brian: I mean, I think that the shift. Brian: I'm drinking more na beers than I ever have. Brian: I think it's a responsible thing to do, and I think that we want to make our product offering as inclusive as we can. Brian: And I think having an alcohol free makes a lot of sense. Brian: Obviously, there's a commercial aspect to that and you're seeing most craft breweries dabble in this a little bit now of varying success. Brian: We're going to take our time developing it. Brian: We had an extensive tasting session across kind of examples of the style as a staff a week or two ago. Brian: And so when I say we're not going to rush it, we learned very quickly that it's better to put out a good, solid to good na beer. Speaker D: Than one that's not quite there. Brian: Right? Speaker D: Yeah. Brian: I'm not naming names, but the range there's from the undrinkable to the wow, that's an unna beer. Brian: Wow. Rory: Yeah. Brian: So we would like to get on that curve, but anyway, we're developing that right now. Brian: We have a pretty good idea of what we want to do there. Brian: So that'll be coming out in probably a couple of months. Speaker D: That's interesting. Speaker D: I feel like with that, we're getting to a point where having the choice of alcohol free beers means that you drink more beer. Speaker D: I think there's more opportunities where you can have a beer and fit that into your week and do it and not get carried away or anything like that, whereas it's not necessary. Speaker D: And I think there's some stats around this that it's not people who don't drink at all, drinking alcohol free beers. Speaker D: Beer drinkers that want more opportunities to try different beers. Brian: That's right. Brian: Yeah. Brian: I mean, if you have a good one, it feels like you still enjoy that experience. Brian: You still have that whole feeling and. Speaker D: All that sort of stuff. Brian: Yeah, exactly. Brian: So I think for my personal, I'll have a beer like an alcoholic Beer, and then number two will be an NA. Brian: And so I think you feel good about yourself. Brian: You feel a little bit. Brian: You can appreciate the experience a little bit more. Brian: A little more responsibly. Brian: So we're developing that. Brian: We have a couple of collaborations coming up. Brian: Our first one is with drop project, which I'm really excited about. Brian: Those guys have been very supportive of us, and we're actually putting on one of their new releases here later in the week as a launch venue. Brian: So we're brewing with them in March for an April release. Brian: So we're pretty excited about that. Brian: We have a couple of other collaborations coming up, and then it's just the festival coming up again. Brian: So that's on June 22. Brian: Changes brewing. Brian: It's the biggest kind of nationwide focused craft beer festival in Oxford every year. Brian: Some really great breweries. Brian: And the nice thing is the planning has gotten much easier for those now that we're in our third year. Speaker D: Now you've sort of done a few. Brian: Know we're not opening a new venue this year for the first time in a while. Brian: Yep. Brian: I'm actually looking forward to just settling in and perfecting what we have here. Brian: So one thing that we are doing that I should mention is the timing still to be determined. Brian: For the next couple of months, we're moving our core range to 440 ML cans. Brian: I think the market's kind of moving that way and a lot of support internally for that. Brian: So we're kind of excited about that. Brian: It's a small thing, but I think it'll make a big difference. Speaker D: That's great. Speaker D: When do you think that's going to come in? Brian: We're hoping March or April. Brian: April at the latest. Brian: As I showed you, we put our stout and IPA in four forties as a kind of cast. Speaker D: Nice. Brian: Yeah, Christmas and yeah, I think it's been well received and we're excited. Speaker D: Very cool. Speaker D: And how can people keep up to date with everything? Speaker D: Tap social movement? Brian: Well, what a question. Brian: I have an answer for that one. Brian: We're on Instagram and Facebook, just at Tap social movement. Brian: We keep that updated throughout, pretty much daily. Brian: We are on Twitter at tapsocial brew and you can subscribe to our website if you go to our Instagram bio link, there's a link there to subscribe to our newsletter that goes out every Thursday and that has all of our events across our venues and that's a great way to stay up to date on what we're up to. Brian: Brilliant. Speaker D: Well, thank you very much for joining us. Speaker D: I have to say, as we're ending this, this is probably the first podcast recorded. Speaker D: I'm very cozy with the lamps here, where I can see your breath coming out as we record. Brian: Right. Speaker D: But proof indeed, that we're recording in January. Speaker D: Yes, exactly. Speaker D: Lovely and cosy otherwise. Brian: But, yeah, thanks for breaking the cold for us. Brian: Not at all. Speaker D: Thank you very much. Brian: Cheers. Rob (Host): It was brilliant to find out all about the work of tap social and Brian's journey into the world of beer and his role as a marketing manager. Rob (Host): And whilst I was there, I was really fortunate to have a chat with Rory, a prison leaver who works at proof social bakehouse, which is part of the tapsocial family. Rob (Host): And Rory describes really powerfully how tapsocial made a massive difference, helping him study to find his feet again and setting him up on the path for success with his new business venture, a sustainable street and sportswear brand called united we are. Rob (Host): So let's have a chat with Rory. Rory: I am an ex prisoner, spent a lengthy time in prison and started working with tap social from prison until getting released and continued to work with them up until now. Rory: And that's where I see myself for the near future, at least. Rory: So I heard about tap in the prison environment. Rory: I was in an open conditions prison. Rory: This is where people go to work and I was looking for a job in between going to university. Rory: I'm also a business and management student, so I was going to university and just wanted some work on a weekend. Rory: And I heard from other lads really great things about tap social. Rory: You can imagine in a prison environment, you've got guys going to work and they come back. Rory: Instinctively, you listen to hear what people's experiences are with the companies that they work for, because you're looking for a job. Rory: And there's some important things about. Rory: For me anyway, personally, there are some really important things about having a certain type of employment, an employer. Rory: So, yeah, you've got guys coming back and they would talk about tap and say how great it was. Rory: It was in Oxford, so it sounded perfect. Rory: I really liked Tap's social mission, and I compared it with other guys'general experiences of other hospitality businesses and different companies. Rory: And there were some kind of unpleasant experiences guys were having when they were going to work and they were coming back. Rory: And I never got this from tap. Rory: I never heard it. Rory: So I only knew a couple of guys who'd worked with tap and were working with Tap. Rory: And a good friend of mine had worked with Tap social just on one occasion, talking about his experiences. Rory: So, yeah, I applied for the job, basically got an interview, and it was to work in a bakery. Rory: And I never baked in my life. Rory: Most cooking I ever done was prison microwave toaster. Rory: I started working and it was really great. Rory: It was just an amazing experience. Rory: It has been an amazing experience. Rory: And when I go back to my concerns and what was important for me being employed, it was to work in an environment where I felt included, where I didn't feel micromanaged, where I didn't feel excessively judged. Rory: You're going to be judged to an extent. Rory: We all make observations and judgments here. Rory: And this. Rory: It's part of being a human being. Rory: But I didn't want to go into a work environment where I was severely judged because of my past and then tret a different way because of that. Rory: Also, it is always a concern. Rory: It's like, how will my colleagues treat me? Rory: And so, yeah, when I came tap social, started working with them, I didn't experience anything like that, anything of a sort. Rory: And, in fact, I found it just fruitful, just amazing, just inspiring the work that tap do with people like myself. Rory: I spent a long time in prison, so I'm learning now. Rory: I'm constantly learning. Rory: I got promoted to be a supervisor. Rory: I do a bit of baking, but I'm more front of house. Rory: I can engage with customers. Rory: That's a bit of me. Rory: So I'm supervising the cafe, become a barista. Rory: Although I can't really do pretty things on top of my drinks, as long. Brian: As they taste good. Rory: I think this is it. Rory: Get the milk right. Brian: Yeah. Rory: The marble effect. Rory: That's what I go for. Rory: I get a love heart now and then, so that's cool. Rory: But I'm constantly learning. Rory: I'm constantly learning as an employee, as a supervisor, as a subordinator, as a superior, and it's been really great. Rory: I'm so thankful for what tap do, and it's just amazing. Rory: So, yeah, really inspiring. Speaker D: It sounds like that experience brought you a lot of confidence. Rory: Yeah, I've always been pretty confident, and I embrace challenges, opportunities to grow. Rory: I'm very focused and motivated in that area. Rory: But there's things you just don't know. Rory: There's things you lack experience in. Rory: And so, yeah, I gained lots of confidence from that, just being like a colleague in your kind of real world, outside of prison work environment. Rory: Because in prison, there's a work environment, people work. Rory: So there's very similar dynamics. Rory: You're not just shut off and put in a cell, within reason. Rory: People do go to prison, they're just stuck in a cell for 20 od hours a day. Rory: There are those, but generally around a prison estate, there's opportunities to work, go to education. Rory: It's an organization, it runs like any other organization in that respect. Rory: So I wasn't completely feral, I was domesticated to some degree. Rory: And so, yeah, it was just about transferring those skills, but actually growing and developing in weak areas and strengthening other areas. Rory: So, yeah, there's been great opportunity there. Speaker D: What were the kind of skills that you were learning when you joined? Rory: So there are your typical, what is called hard skills, which are to bake, which is cool. Rory: But really, I've got, like a love hate relationship with baking. Rory: It's funny, it's like decorating. Rory: Yeah, it's just messy and I hate decorating, but I love the process of baking and the products at the end. Rory: It's amazing. Rory: I just visually is just great, even though I can't eat most of them, and lactose intolerant, which is a bit sad, but, yeah, I enjoy seeing other people eat them and the love that's gone into making those products, the hard work and the effort by the guys who work there. Rory: Just passionate. Rory: So, yeah, those hard skills in the cafe and I'm still learning making coffee, even using the till. Rory: Before I went to prison, I use a till and it was touch screen. Rory: But the new technologies. Rory: So those are skills, then, in terms of soft skills, I've learned to improve my communication. Rory: In any work environment, you're going to get disagreements, get conflict. Rory: So I've worked on my communication skills there and improved there. Rory: That's cool. Rory: And enhancing basically just all those skills. Rory: I previously had the focus, diligence, these things, tolerance, customer service skills as well. Rory: I always like customer service. Rory: In prison, I'd worked on prison surgery. Rory: So you feed in. Rory: It's like being basically a dinner lady. Rory: Yeah, it wasn't like being a dinner lady. Rory: The school, but you serving could be up to 100 guys. Rory: That brings its own challenges. Rory: But I enjoy that. Rory: I enjoy chatting, have a bit of banter and just ensuring that they have the best experience possible. Rory: So I enhanced my customer service skills. Speaker D: Fantastic. Speaker D: How did the conversations work when you met up with tap for the first time to sort of finding out what you wanted to do, what skills you needed to kind of build on and that kind of thing, how did those conversations work and happen? Rory: Okay, so in the interview job was for a baker. Rory: I was asked what previous skills I had before, and I still wrote my application with my previous skills and how could transfer those skills. Rory: And we were told the guys who were having the interview, this is kind of what's required of you, and how do you think that you would like things that could be quite monotonous tasks, very repetitive. Rory: How can you deal with that? Rory: Ensuring that measurements are correct all the time with the baking. Rory: So those were the sorts of skills that I would talked about. Rory: And I didn't know at this time I'd be going to work front of house. Rory: I used to be baking, and I'd look over at the cafe, I'll see Eminem. Rory: I'll be like, oh, that's a bit of me, right? Rory: I almost kind of, like, discovered what I really wanted to do with the bakery when I'd been working there a little while. Rory: There's always dialogue with our directors. Rory: This is another thing. Rory: These guys, they're always there. Rory: If we need to chat with them, talk with them, always engaging. Rory: If I've had issues, I'll contact them. Rory: I'll say, look, this is my issue. Rory: I need some input. Rory: Where do you think I should go with this? Rory: I always get great feedback. Rory: Yeah, I was kind of asked if I wanted to go front of house. Rory: They knew I wanted to do that from having dialogue with them. Rory: And, yeah, there was just opportunity to have worked there. Rory: So I just started working there. Rob (Host): Nice. Speaker D: And that must be really helpful when you do have those moments where you need some help overcoming an obstacle to be able to speak with someone. Rory: Definitely, yeah, 100%. Rory: That's been really important and impactful for me because I'm a business and management student. Rory: I'm a director and co founder of sustainable sport and street wear brand with my brother Connor called United we are. Rory: And I aspire for the business to grow and people will be working underneath me. Rory: And I know what it's like in the prison environment. Rory: And you don't just have to be from the prison environment to experience bad management, for example. Rory: But in the prison environment, there's some great staff and great people doing great things. Rory: But when you are a subordinate, in a sense, you're less powerful. Rory: And when decisions are made that you have very limited control over, in prison environment, I found that so negatively impactful on people's well being and their progress through the prison system. Rory: So that brought about in me this huge desire to ensure that I'm a good manager. Rory: If I'm ever managing someone, if I ever have authority, control that I'm a good manager, I'm good. Rory: So being a business and management student as well, and learning on the theory side of things, how important that is, different styles of management, and how important it is to have healthy and good management as nurturing, nurtures people who are underneath them and nurtures the whole organization culture is really important. Rory: For me, organization culture is something kind of passionate about as well. Rory: Having a really healthy, productive organization culture is like an amazing thing, and it's something that I've experienced with tap and having directors, people I can go to, people I can talk to, is really inspiring and actually encouraged me even further to continue to pursue that desire to be a good manager, to be involved, be there, don't be somebody in the distance. Speaker D: That's really interesting to hear you talk about that. Speaker D: So you've taken that with you from your experience in prison that you want to be a good manager and you've had some experience of the culture that you want to create tap as well. Rory: Yeah, definitely. Speaker D: Can you tell us a little bit about your business plans with United we are and what you're looking to do? Rory: United we are. Rory: So, okay, yes, we're pretty new. Rory: We sell sustainable street and sportswear. Rory: For us, it's about trying to create community around a brand, try and be informative around consumerism and making better choices, inspiring as well. Rory: And encourage people to just make better choices, not just in consumerism, but in their everyday life. Rory: On our website, we've got a page, it says, get involved. Rory: And we provide guidance on what people can do in terms of recycling and ways to recycle. Rory: Yeah, so that's also, we're really new and we're always growing. Rory: We're in, like, kind of still in startup phase, I would say. Rory: We're tweaking things, we're improving things, and we're just growing. Rory: And, yeah, it's good for me. Rory: I also would like to develop the brand in a way that it works to prevent reoffending, works to prevent crime. Rory: I'm inspired by tap and real lived experience. Rory: So for me, it's like, I've been thinking, like, just brainstorming some ideas, and it's like, I would love to set up something where we sponsor disadvantaged children, particularly. Rory: Again, I'm just ideas, particularly widowed parents, so my mother was widowed when I was seven, four kids. Rory: My mom, great woman, did her best, did a great job. Rory: But there was barriers to me getting involved in, say, karate, for example. Rory: There's insurance and there's the kits and things like that, and had those barriers and there's other factors that always contribute to people committing crime. Rory: So it's not as straightforward as this. Rory: But had I not had those barriers and I've been able to pursue karate, maybe then I would have had influential role models in my life that I required, at the time, strong male figures in my life to guide me in the right direction. Rory: I'd had an outlet to express my energy, I'd had something to really focus on. Rory: And there's a good chance that it would have helped steer me in the straight path, because exercise and fitness prior to prison, through prison and even after, is something that's kept me centered even amongst the madness in my life. Rory: So, yeah, I would love to set up some sort of program where we could sponsor some kid for till the age of 16 to pursue a sport that they want. Rory: So for me, I love the environment. Rory: My brother loves the environment. Rory: Connor, co founder and director as well. Rory: He's doing environmental studies. Rory: Really passionate. Rory: So it'd be good to kind of bring something else into. Rory: And for me and my brother, we'd always talked about having a business between us. Rory: So for me, it was like we wanted a business that contributes the world in a positive way. Rory: And this is what united VR is about. Speaker D: I think it's lovely to see that you're also looking to create a business for good. Speaker D: So whilst you're working, you're obviously creating something that sells and pays the bills. Speaker D: In doing it, you help out the world around. Rory: Exactly. Rory: Why not? Rory: Why not? Speaker D: I've probably asked you it in different ways before, but what does tap mean to you? Rory: That's a good question. Rory: What does it mean to me? Rory: How important it was for me to have the type of employment I was seeking, as well as in terms something where I could have a future. Rory: And it wasn't just a stepping stone, like I've talked about, was like, so important, has been so impactful. Rory: I felt supported throughout process. Rory: Tap has been a support, it's been nurturing, again, inspiring. Rory: And it means a great deal to me to be a part of this organisation that evidently is having such a big impact on people returning back to prison, people who have been in conflict with the justice system. Rory: This is how I like to refer to people called prisoners, ex prisoners, but I don't like reusing offenders, offender people who are in conflict or have been in conflict with justice system. Rory: So it's just great, it's cool. Rory: It's hard to put into words, to kind of define it. Rory: What tap means to me. Rory: It means a great deal. Rory: And having that stable employment, which was purposeful, gave me direction, gave me opportunity, has just been amazing. Rory: It's just amazing. Rory: Just superb. Rory: All the great words. Rory: Yeah. Rory: You can find in the dictionary. Rory: There you go. Rory: All the great, amazing words. Rory: Yeah. Rory: I mean, this is how cool tap are. Rory: Yeah. Rory: I was moving into my accommodation and I was in a probation hostel. Rory: I had loads of stuff. Brian: Yeah. Rory: Because I got out, so I was. Brian: Like making sure I was getting things. Rory: That I didn't have and had been away for so long. Rory: Yeah. Rory: And I was like, right, cool. Rory: Who can I get to help take my stuff to my accommodation? Rory: It's not too far away, but I thought I could get a van, I could rent a van. Rory: I know they've got their vans, big vans. Brian: Yeah. Rory: So I was like, cool. Rory: So I contacted Tess, she's one of the directors. Rory: She's like, my go to tessers. Rory: She's cool. Rory: And I was like, yo, listen to. Rory: Have you got your van? Rory: I'll pay in it. Rory: I need help to move some stuff. Rory: Some of the stuff straight on it. Rory: They didn't have the van. Brian: Yeah. Rory: However, Tess and Matt, another great person, one of the know both of their cars, came on that day and helped me take my stuff to my accommodation, helped me carry in just that help outside of and even with the brand, I do a run club every Thursday as a collaboration between proof Bakehouse and United. Rory: We are. Rory: And that's where we have a really inclusive run club where it's like social pace, five k every Thursday. Rory: So even in terms of that, they've really kind of helped with the brand, actually helped me and my brother to build that community around our brand. Rory: And it's both under the social responsibility umbrella. Rory: You got tap proof doing a great thing, working with prisoners, and then you've got our brand, which is about sustainability and so, yeah, so it's cool to kind of like collab with each other. Speaker D: It's more than a job, though, isn't it's a community you've joined, in a way, and a community that works together and wants everyone to do well. Rory: And this is it. Rory: Yeah, this is it. Rory: It's more than just coming to what I could be. Rory: Just a bit of a bad day. Rory: Only human. Rory: We all have our bad days and you know what it's like I can go to work and I'm cool. Rory: I'm nice. Rory: It brings me up. Rory: It's great because I know there's support there. Rory: Great colleagues. Rory: Just a great environment, really healthy. Rory: Yeah, it's cool. Speaker D: Can I ask you a beer question? Rory: All right, go ahead. Speaker D: As we are beer people, do you have a favorite beer at all from there? Rory: I do like false economy lager. Rory: That's my go to. Rory: I'd definitely say false economy. Rory: Happy days. Speaker D: Nice one. Speaker D: How about your favorite proof bakery product? Rory: See what this is a thing? Rory: Yeah. Rory: Being lactose intolerant, it's probably the only thing that saves me. Brian: Otherwise it'd be a problem working. Rory: Problem. Rory: Vegan cinnamon buns. Speaker D: Nice. Rory: And panoreisans. Rory: I love a panorama. Rory: I've always loved a panorisian. Rory: Yeah. Rory: So they're my two. Rory: I can't really say it. Rory: It's hard to decide out of them too. Brian: Fantastic. Speaker D: How about coffee? Speaker D: What's your favorite coffee? Rory: Coffee. Rory: So I like what I call a flat whizzle. Rory: Flat white. Speaker D: Yeah. Rory: I like black Americanos. Brian: Large black americano appears. Speaker D: Nice one. Speaker D: That's brilliant. Speaker D: Well, thank you so much for joining. Rob (Host): Us and sharing your story there. Rory: Very welcome. Brian: Thank you. Rob (Host): And if more businesses and brands had that approach to improving the world we live in, it would be a much kinder place. Rob (Host): And it's great to see their awareness and influence building. Rob (Host): A big thanks to Brian and Rory for their time. Rob (Host): And we recorded this in the wonderful market tap in Oxford's covered market, which is an amazing venue. Rob (Host): Definitely go there if you haven't been before, and make sure you visit there or any of the other tap social venues when you're in the city. Rob (Host): Thank you very much for listening and I hope you can join me on the next one. Rob (Host): And this is the part where I ask for your help. Rob (Host): If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to the podcast, leave a review or rating, or share it with others. Rob (Host): This really helps us out and helps other people find the podcast, particularly as we're starting out. Rob (Host): And you can follow us on social media search for we are beer people. Rob (Host): All one word. Rob (Host): You can also email us at wearbeerpeoplepod@gmail.com. Rob (Host): Let us know what you think, share your thoughts and if you have any recommendations for beer people you'd like to hear from. Rob (Host): And until next time, don't forget you, me, us, them, we are all beer people.

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